[ as a southern belle ] aflac. [ as a cowboy ] aflac. [ sassily ] aflac. uh huh. [ under his breath ] i am so fired. you're on in 5, duck. [ male announcer ] when you're sick or hurt, aflac pays you cash. find out more at aflac.com. "these tide pods will save you some time. "just throw one in the wash and they'll keep your lucky sweatshirt looking great." thanks, mom. "i also sent some new..." sweet! tighty whities! i guess you'll be using your tide pods on these, huh? [ man ] that's my tide. what's yours? on the 12th day of the shutdown, nothing. >> let's end this uncertainty for our nation. >> time has expired. >> stop the battering of jobs in this economy, bring a clean resolution to the floor and reopen the government of the united states. >> mr. speaker -- >> the gentleman's time has expired. >> let us vote to open the government. >> we could open up the government in 15 minutes if speaker boehner puts a clean

continuing resolution on the floor right now. let's get it done. >> gentleman yields back. >> end this republican government shutdown. >> as the chair previously advised, the request cannot be entertained. >> i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc. the house and senate both at work today. house republicans left a morning pep rally saying they have no new proposals. then all eyes turn to the senate. they took up a plan to reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling. that also went nowhere. as the mess continues inside, on the national mall today, tea party founders cleaned up. but who will end the mess that the shutdown is causing for americans? we are following all the latest live from capitol hill. we wish they could find that same kind of innovation in washington, d.c. that we find here in utah.

>> also ahead, wide-open spaces. today, several states are reopening national parks. but at what cost? we'll talk about that. and concussion crisis. a new book claims the nfl ignored the link between the sport and brain injuries. does it tell the whole story? and fix it, don't toss it. your trash may be this couple's treasury. it's today's "big idea". we start on capitol hill where a lot of people are talking but still no breakthrough in the stalemate. joining me live from the hill, luke russert who's been following this for 12 days now. walk us through what happened this morning. we know house speaker john boehner said there's currently no deal, no negotiations, no reason for congress to even stick around until monday. then just about an hour ago, senate democrats voted down proposal by republican senator susan collins. >> reporter: yeah, there's a lot of action going on here on

capitol hill with a possible way forward to fund the government and extend the debt limit. at 9:00 a.m. this morning, the house gop conference met. it was there that john boehner and eric cantor said, the white house has rejected our six-week extension, the debt limit plan. as of right now, it all goes over to the senate gop. senate republicans are going to be the ones who negotiate this. boehner told his conference it was up to them, saying it's up to house republicans to hold it strong. the house gop, they're dismissed. the house is gone till 6:30 on monday. in the senate, talks are under way between harry reid and mitch mcconnell about some sort of way to fund the government as well as extend the debt limit. as one senator told me, the adults are now in the room guiding these discussions. what will this deal look like? we do not know. senate democrats did not like the proposal by susan collins

which would have extended the debt limit until january 31st and funded the government through march 31 because it wasn't long enough. they don't want it to come up again in an election year. they don't want to have to have another one of these fights. so reid, mcconnell, chuck schumer, lamar alexander, two republicans, two democrats, but really reid and mcconnell are now spearheading the negotiations. they're trying to figure out some way forward. craig, the way in which the senate works with parliamentary procedure, they're up against a clock. they need to get this out sooner rather than later. the later they get it out, the more of an opportunity that folks like cruz and paul have to hold it up. i spoke to one republican aide in the senate. they said worst case scenario, if they held up an agreement that could come out as early as today or tomorrow, you could see the final vote on this deal come thursday, the day we reach the debt limit. no one wants to go that close. now, whatever deal comes out of

the senate, most likely will be bipartisan. should pass by a wide margin. but house republicans are going to hate it because they're going to say they were kept out of the deal. then john boehner has a decision. he can put it on the floor or try and offer something at the last minute. but then where it ends, we don't know. all we know is it's on reid and mcconnell's shoulders and the white house is being kept informed of every last detail, we're being told as well. >> i think the thesis there is, where it ends, we don't know? luke, we'll come back to you later in the broadcast. thank you as always. i want to bring in kayla tausche and the national political reporter at "the national journal." kayla, five days from now, five days, looks like we very well could hit this so-called debt ceiling. the stock market so far seems to be taking it in stride. dow closing higher yesterday. what will a default look like?

walk us through that. >> thursday is basically the equivalent of if you hit your credit card borrowing limit. you can't spend any more money on your credit card. you're dealing only with your paycheck and whatever money that holds is what you use to cover your expenses. there's a $6 billion payment coming up on the 31st. and the treasury secretary said the government will have to do those expenses before the interest payment comes through. a default would come anytime between october 22nd and november 1st. that's what scares wall street. it could happen any day in that time frame. they're not looking at a single deadline. the fear is that's not putting enough pressure under congress because there's not a single date we're looking at. if they don't get this done by thursday, the government has to pay its bills. it could happen any time the following week. >> some are saying that even if we surpass this limit that it might not be the end of

civilization as we know it. what say you to that? >> i think an important fulcrum was hit this week. a lot of the big money investors started selling these short-term treasuries that come up for payment in the next two weeks to a month. now, in previous situations with the debt ceiling when the government has tried to delay these payments or negotiate with some of these investors, they've been able to say, we might not get there. give us a couple of extra weeks. but those same people have been selling that debt. who holds it now? china, japan, brazil, europe. do we want to be negotiating with those people? that's a scary situation and something the u.s. has never seen before. >> dave is also standing by down in washington, d.c. house democrats this morning tried to force a vote on last week's senate bill which would have opened the government and left obama care intact. democratic lawmakers were seen wearing some stickers in support

of opening the government. what was accomplished in the house this morning, dave? >> reporter: not much because it was immediately undone by the senate. democrats in the senate brought up the clean long-term debt limit increase and were unable to get the votes they needed to break a filibuster of it. the idea this could be passed in the house always rested on the idea that the senate was ready to move it. keep in mind, they weren't talking about quite the same thing. the real negotiation is probably going to involve a shorter-term debt limit than what was coming up in the senate. but democrats are just trying to create the impression that they are able to deal. they're willing to move ahead and put as much onus and blame on the republicans as possible. the house democrats could introduce this petition but i don't think yet have any republicans been willing to put their names on it. none of the republicans say they're ready to vote for a clean c.r., are willing to come

to any of the democratic proposals. they would literally lose their elections and be politically defunct. >> if this clean c.r., so to speak, if this thing were brought up to a vote by house speaker john boehner, would it, in fact, pass fairly easily? >> no. i don't think that's true. a lot of the quotes that you will see, unofficial counts from republicans come from before the shutdown began. maybe it doesn't make a ton of sense. but some of these guys from moderate districts were ready to cave that night. now that they are locked in with the rest of the parties in both chambers on a shutdown, now that they're already receiving the political blame for it, they want something else from it. some of these guys, i've talked to them. and they're not willing to deal on this.

the idea that democrats need to keep this impression -- it's so confusing that they're able to do it. but we're not going to get what they say. there are enough republicans -- for all the talk you hear about this being 30 conservative republicans holding the entire conference, there are far fewer moderate republicans willing to bend. >> the republican party rift becoming more and more public, a little nastier. ted cruz seems to be bearing the brunt of a lot of this. this is new york's peter king just yesterday. take a listen. >> we have to take a stand here. we cannot allow our party to be taken over by the likes of ted cruz and rand paul. these are isolationists, i consider them rhinos. >> how damaging could this rift be to the republican party -- to the party's brand as a whole after all of this subsides? >> i think we're seeing the

results of that rift right now. you have the conservatives and moderates. now you see a rift between the house and senate republicans. senate republicans are getting fed up with waiting for the house to act and move forward. after the white house rejected their proposal, they're moving -- they moved ahead with one. that was rebuffed by house republicans. as far as what this does to the brand, it depends on who you're talking to. moderate republicans would argue that the conservative wing is damaging the party as a whole. >> senator majority leader harry reid holding a news conference right now. let's listen in. >> republican offers going around or discussions with my senators. i called senator alexander and said, what's going on? to shorten the story here, he said, i'm representing senator mcconnell. and later in the evening, he asked if i would meet with him and senator schumer and senator mcconnell. and i said, yes. we met at 9:00 this morning.

the conversations were extremely cordial but very preliminary, of course. nothing conclusive. but i hope that our talking is some solace to the american people and to the world. this hasn't happened until now. senator mcconnell asked to meet with me, i was happy to do that. this should be seen as something very positive. even though we don't have anything done yet and a long ways to go before anything like that will happen -- that's a relative term. in minutes, hours, days, we're trying to figure out a way to go forward. susan collins is one of my favorite senators, democrat or republican. i appreciate her efforts as always to find a consensus. but the plan that she suggested

that i've seen and is in writing is not going to go anyplace at this stage. two good things in it. number within, one, it opens th government and number two, extends the debt limit. i want to make sure that people here understand that we have some problems with that as does the white house with the so-called collins plan. as i explained to senator mcconnell and senator alexander this morning, they're not doing us a favor by reopening the government. they're not doing us a favor by extending the debt ceiling. that's part of our jobs. that's why we've said, open the government and let us pay our

bills and we need to do that before we have any agreement on what goes after that. this is not a concession. this is basically doing our jobs. this is what we're supposed to do. default is four days away. and i say again, i'm grateful and thankful senator mcconnell reached out to me. i was happy to do that. i had a piece of legislation on the floor today to extend the debt ceiling for a year. it's hard for me to comprehend, but every republican voted against this. this was a motion to proceed to the measure so that we could debate it. if they had allowed us to invoke cloture on this, we would have 30 hours, use every minute if we wanted to, to see if we could

come up with something. they just voted no. now, procedurally, you know how it works around here. that's not easy. to move forward. i can't imagine why they did that. defaulting our debt will risk millions of americans' jobs, not thousands. not tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands. millions of jobs. social security checks -- >> senator majority leader harry reid there updating all of us on those budget negotiations. i want to bring in alabama republican congressman mo brooks who has been listening to some of what the senate majority leader had to say. congressman, let me get your initial reaction to what we heard there from senator reid. >> well, i'm puzzled by it. it's clear he's on a different wavelength than we are or the rest of the country should be. this fight is about the solvency of our country. this fight will determine where

we're going to be decades from now. we're on a path to bankruptcy as a country and we've got to get our spending under control. now, you can get it under control by trying to restrict obama care, if that's the way you want to take it. or any other numbers of programs that you may want to cut spending concerning. but the big picture is we're going to have a federal government in solvency and bankruptcy if we don't change our path. and the president's own comptroller general earlier this year warned congress that we are on an unsustainable path. >> let's talk about spending here. i'm sure you would acknowledge as the cbo has indicated that the past two years at least, spending in this country has fallen to a smaller percentage of the gdp since any administration since eisenhower. i would assume you're aware of that, correct? >> i am aware of our spending trends. i'm also aware that over the last five years, we have average deficits in excess of $1 trillion a year.

msnbc, how long could y'all stay in business if year after year after year 30% of your operational costs was borrowed money? you'd go out of business. same thing for the federal government. >> let's talk about the issue here because there are a lot of folks out there who say -- some of the points you're making are valid. however, this is probably not the best method by which to make those points. refusing to raise the debt ceiling, refusing to open the government -- >> i would love to do it in the normal course. however, the other side of the aisle has made it very clear that anytime we try to reduce spending or do something that is financially responsible, they're going to ignore it and not even vote on it. the only leverage we have to cajole the senate into doing its job, to protect america from a bankruptcy, is the debt ceiling, continuing resolution, appropriation bills and things of that nature, things the senate has to vote on. >> sounds like you're saying

what we're witnessing right now is a method of last resort by house republicans? you guys feel this is the only way by which to get your way, correct? >> this is the only way that we can preserve the country that it took centuries for our fo forefathers to build. greece is further down this debt path. they have 27% unemployment. cyprus is further along this debt path. recently they seized as much as 60% of the monies in the savings and checking accounts. i mentioned the president's own comptroller general who in writing warned us we're on an unsustainable financial path. >> is this the best way to correct said path? >> no. the best way is for those people who are financially irresponsible to do their homework, to look at economic theories, to look at the practicality of where we are and to voluntarily come up with solutions to reduce this deficit

that faces our future. >> why not open the government and do that? why not open the government and have that conversation? >> past experience has shown us without any doubt that the only way to get those in the united states congress and the white house who are financially irresponsible and pay attention is to do so in this kind of mechanism. i don't like it. continuing resolution adversely affected our economy. not raising the debt ceiling is going to have an adverse effect on our economy. this is going to destroy our nation. >> how real is the threat of default? >> totally within the discretion of the president of the united states. he does not have to default on our obligations to our creditors unless he wants to. there's a general accounting office, opinion from 1985 that says that. moody's this week, if you're familiar with their report, they also say that there's not a credit risk unless the president wants to default. now, the president uses default in a much broader term than

people who are in the financial sector do. default means you're not paying your credit obligations in the financial sector. the president uses it to say, we're not paying all the things that we want to spend money on. that's his deflection of default. >> stand by. that's an argument i've heard a lot of. kayla tausche, i want to bring you back in. we've heard from congressmen who have said that. is that true? >> under the 14th amendment the president does have the right to ask the federal reverse to print more money to pay for that interest payment that comes due on october 31st. some are saying, why doesn't the president just ask the fed? the problem is, guess who has the enforcement right under the 14th amendment? congress. if the president decides to print more money, congress can say, we're striking that payment down. the risk is too high. that's why the executive branch said it's not an option. i think the markets have given congress way too much credit. they are very lucky when the headline hit this morning that

the proposal fell short and that there were no more talks and that it was up to congress to find another proposal to bring back to the president, they're very lucky because if that had happened, at 9:29 on friday morning, you can bet the markets would have cost them. if you think about the day the republicans in the house struck down t.a.r.p. in 2008, $1.2 trillion of wealth was destroyed in the stock market. they went back and they passed it in due course. the market opens monday morning. if we don't have a deal by then, hopefully they'll hold congress' feet to the fire. >> i'm sure you all are familiar with the new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. the blame for the shutdown, the blame for the mess that is washington, d.c. right now, the lion's share of that blame is being put squarely on the shoulders of your party, sir. what say you to that? >> well, basically you've got carpet bombing that's been going on by the democrats and by the

mainstream news media. and they run a poll to see how much damage they've done. of course they -- >> how are we responsible for public sentiment? >> i watch the mainstream news media on a regular basis. you guys, cnn, i have yet to hear one of you say the shutdown is because of the democrats. every time it comes out, we have the democratic party line and blame it on the republicans. the house is the entity that's passed the appropriation bills. the senate's passed zero. the house has no motive -- the democrats have a motivation to shut down the government buzz the democrats believe they can use it as a campaign tool in 2014. hence the democrats set this situation up in the united states senate by refusing to vote on a single appropriations bills, 12 that would fund the federal government. that's where they're coming from. >> why won't you guys open the government piece by piece when you can open the government

entirely in one fell swoop? >> we did that. we passed a continuing resolution that fully funds the federal government. it made the white house subject to the same obama care that the american people are going to be subject to. and second it delayed for one year the individual mandate. that's all it did. otherwise, the federal government was wholly and fully funded. >> congressman mo brooks, republican from alabama, i appreciate you coming on, sir. >> my pleasure. >> big thanks to kayla tausche and a big thanks to dave weigel as well who we lost down in washington, d.c. and alahe, thank you all for sticking around. your name, your face could soon appear in advertisements to people that you know. that's what google announced yesterday. the web giant plans to use user activity as endorsements. rating an album on google play or clicking plus one for a local

store on google plus could mean appearing in an ad for friends and family to see. the new terms of service are set to go into effect november 11th. users can opt out by changing their settings in google's shared endorsements page. you're watching msnbc. building animatronics is all about getting things to work together. the timing, the actions, the reactions. everything has to synch up. my expenses are no different. receiptmatch on the business gold rewards card synchronizes your business expenses. just shoot your business card receipts and they're automatically matched up with the charges on your online statement. i'm john kaplan, and i'm a member of a synchronized world. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. we are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action.

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sounding off at starbucks. voters, fed up with congress, only need to head to their local coffee shop. a campaign is under way for customers to sign a petition called come together. it encourages congress to pass a budget deal and get federal workers back on the job. while the government remains shut down, first lady michelle obama is rallying white house staffers. michelle obama roamed the halls of the white house and the executive office building earlier this week thanking employees for their work during the partial shutdown.

most of the white house staff has been furloughed. but apparently not the staffers who produced these weekly videos for the white house. and the last thing new jersey governor chris christie wants to do apparently is join the senate. he told "the philadelphia inquirer," quote, if i was in the senate right now, i'd kill myself. in that same interview, he blamed both republicans and democrats for the government shutdown. ♪ take this job and shove it ♪

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executive, a department of justice, that's unwilling to prosecute high officials who lied to congress on camera. but they'll stop at nothing to persecute someone who told them the truth. secretary of state john kerry and afghan president hamid karzai have struck a partial security deal that will determine how many u.s. troops stay in afghanistan after 2014. the final and deal-breaking issue over who will have jurisdiction over those american forces remains unresolved. back here, texas governor rick perry has been criss-crossing the country lately on a campaign. is it 2016 already? not exactly. perry who ran unsuccessfully for president in 2012 is now courting businesses and voters to move to texas. and there could be something else up his sleeve.

paul berka joins us. thanks for stopping by on a saturday. governor perry now trying to lure businesses to the lonestar state. he's visited six states over the last seven months including california, missouri, illinois, maryland, connecticut and the big apple, new york. a lot of these states are run by democratic governors. why would rick perry be targeting these states in particular? >> well, i think the first thing is, is that perry wants to target what he would call high-tax states, which would be illinois, new york, california. and what he's trying to do, of course, is stay relevant. he's a lame duck governor. his term is up in 2015. and he wants to run for president. and so what you're seeing is this is an opportunity to do two

things. one is establish his conservative bona fides. but it also raises his national profile as a possible presidential candidate. >> speaking of potential presidential candidates from texas, ted cruz, who of course has been a driving force behind the republican strategy both with the government shutdown and the debate over the debt ceiling. how is his time in the national spotlight -- how is that playing at home right now? >> well, it plays pretty well here because texas is a state that's very much influenced by the tea party. the tea party has been very successful here. it's been very successful in getting legislators elected. and so i think it plays pretty well. this is a very, very conservative state, deeply red. and so i think it's natural for

cruz -- and i don't think that what has happened in washington has hurt ted cruz in texas one iota. >> it's talk about texas state senator wendy davis who made a name for herself when she filibustered that abortion bill. she is now running for governor of texas. you just talked about how deeply red texas is. there have been a handful of folks over the past year or two that have alluded to the fact that texas could become purple in the near future. is wendy davis the democrats' best hope of turning the tide in the lonestar state or is she a media darling? >> well, i think she's both. definitely a media darling. but also texas' best hope. the polls that have been run here show that the key constituency in this state in a gubernatorial race would be suburban women and most of those

people who live in the suburbs are republican. so she will be trying to get votes from people who are essentially republicans but are woman and care about women's issues and who are angry about the way that the male-driven republican party here has sort of ignored a lot of women's health issues. >> paul, always appreciate your insight on your state there. thank you, sir. >> thank you. i'm going to pivot here and talk about something else. are we as a society consumed by consumption? you're about to meet two people who'd like to repair your rags instead of letting you buy new riches. it's today's "big idea." sandra and michael started a pop-up repair shop and they started it here in manhattan as part of what they call the stuff movement, encouraging people to fix their household items instead of throwing them out and buying new ones.

they're live here in the studio. good to see you. thanks for stopping by. in the simplest of terms, what is the stuff movement? >> well, it seems that there is a growing awareness in the country and maybe beyond the country that our society is consuming maybe more than it needs. we're a little bit maybe behind in terms of things where we are now with food. the food movement has come a long way in the last 15 to 20 years. but we feel like the consumer good movement has not really reached the same point. >> how did that become this? >> well, that's the big picture. the little picture at home for us is we were constantly finding things in our home that had broken and spent our weekends fixing them. we started asking ourselves, why is it so hard to get anything fixed anymore? so we decided to try an experiment and see if other people felt the same way. we opened a one-month repair

shop in our neighborhood in new york. >> we have everything from a regular pair of scissors to an ipod. you guys can fix ipods now? >> i've fixed that one three times. >> how did you get the skill set needed to do -- it's one thing to fix a pair of scissors. it's another thing entirely to open up one of mr. jobs' creations and go to town there. >> we work with a wide range of objects in theater and in design. >> what exactly -- let's talk about this. >> that is actually -- that's the one thing at the end of the month that hadn't been picked up. also possibly one of the most unusual things we saw during the month. >> is that a big spoon? >> it is a big spoon. i don't know what you would eat out of it. i think it's a decorative thing. it was brought in in two pieces and they asked us to make it back into one. and we did that. >> one of the great things about the shop that we were most surprised by was the wide range

of stuff people brought in, from a spoon to an ipod, that people loved to be able to have one place to bring it to. >> you opened the pop-up for a month over the summer. i understand you want to do more of these? >> we're planning our next one for this coming june. we're looking for individuals, businesses around the country who might be interested in bringing repair to their neighborhood. >> expensive if someone brings something in -- my ipod's not working -- cost from what to what? >> one of the big challenges that we face is, of course, the low cost of new things. so our goal was always to hit a price point where people wouldn't say, for that, i can go get a new one. sometimes that can't be done. the parts are not there for that price. but generally we would make a very competitive price. sometimes maybe too low. but that was part of the project. >> the whole thing is quite fascinating, really is. i imagine that the response that you got from folks who brought things in range sometimes from

surprise to, oh, my god, this is fantastic and it would bring in like six or seven things. >> that was one of the most exciting things for us. people would come in with something that you would ordinarily get repaired and they would look at the things around the store that we were fixing and they would say, hold on, they would go home, and get their stuff and bring it to us. it became a community event in our neighborhood. it was a great way to get people thinking and talking about repair. >> in a perfect world, how does this play out? what's the end game? >> i don't know if it ends. but sandra's been working very hard on reaching new businesses, new communities, new individuals, spreading out into new markets. and trying to get everyone thinking about repair as an option. >> don't throw it, fix it. it's today's "big idea." thank you so much for stopping by to share it with us. do you have a big idea that's making a difference?

sometimes the big idea is actually a small idea. but they could turn into big ideas. do you have one? there's the website. there's the e-mail address on your screen. bigidea.msnbc@nbcuni.com. time now to flash back. it was this day in 1998 that matthew shepherd, an openly gay college student, died days after being attacked in a hate crime. his two abductors are serving life sentences and his death sparked a nationwide conversation about hate crimes and homosexuality in general. his home state remains one of only four states with no hate crime law. >> reporter: it was a gruesome discovery at this fence late sunday afternoon. two bicyclists approached. at first, they said it looked like a scarecrow.

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poligrip helps minimize stress which may damage supporting teeth by stabilizing your partial. care for your partial. help protect your natural teeth. sometimes a picture says it all, right? this snapshot of a little boy locked out of the national zoo captured the sadness and frustration many are facing as scores of federally funded programs remain shut down. and in this case, gates shut. but today some states are taking matters into their own hands to change that. governor jan brewer has reopened the grand canyon and says her state will pay the national park service $651,000 to resume operations. the governor of new york has also reached a deal to reopen lady liberty. mt. rushmore will also be open for business monday. but not every state has been able to get their parks up and

running again just yet. nbc's jay gray filed this report from the smoky mountains in tennessee. >> reporter: a beautiful day in the great smoky mountains right now. as the bickering and the shutdown continues in washington, it's really affecting towns like the one you see over my shoulder, gatlinburg, tennessee. townes that reply on this park and are now struggling to survive. normally the most popular of the national park with more than 10 million visitors a year. the hiking trails and campgrounds in the great smoky mountains are blocked off and closed down right now because of the government shutdown. >> it's the small guys that are suffering and people driving through here. what can you hurt walking through the mountains? it's got nothing to do with politics. >> reporter: but it has everything to do with the economic livelihood of towns like gatlinburg that line the park. >> the economy is losing anywhere between $7 million and $14 million a day every day that the park is closed.

>> reporter: as the leaves begin to change, typically this is the busiest and most profitable time of the year in the region. there are still some tourists here but not as many. for those businesses that rely on access to the park -- >> thousands and thousands of dollars gone. no recovery. >> reporter: this woman says the nature walks, hiking and backpacking trips she had booked would have provided 20% of her annual income. >> we all count on october to make our money to last us pretty much through the winter during the slower season. >> reporter: but right now, there is no season. >> we do this because we love the park. we love this area. and it's really devastating. >> reporter: and getting worse every day the shutdown continues. you can understand the emotion when you realize that the park provides more than $8 million in revenue to this area every year. 11,000 jobs to the region, many of those jobs on hold right now until there's some type of deal in washington.

inside the great smoky mountains national park, i'm jay gray. >> thank you so much. that background, postcard perfect. and the shutdown could force kraft breweries to put custom beer on hold. >> hopefully the government is back up so we can get some labels and get these out to the masses. >> the alcohol tax and trade bureau has to approve new brews and new labels as well. ek t they can't do that during the partial government shutdown. ♪ there's a tear in my beer

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in football, one has to expect that almost every play of every game, every practice, they're going to be hitting their heads against each other. that's the nature of the game.

those things seem to happen around 1,000 to 1,500 times a year. each time that happens, it's around 20 g or more. that's the equivalent of driving a car 35 miles per hour into a brick wall. 1,000 to 1,500 times per year. >> that was a clip from a new frontline documentary called "league of denial." it's about the nfl's concussion crisis. it aired this week on pbs. joining me live now, one of the men who wrote the book that the documentary is based on, espn investigative reporter steve fanaroo. i caught the documentary. if you haven't seen this thing, check it out. it really is eye-opening. you don't have to be a fan of football to enjoy it. we are talking about football and concussions, a whole heck of a lot these days. but for two decades, the league was, in fact, in a complete state of denial. what changed, sir? >> well, i think what happened

was that the league came under pressure from a variety of factors, notably journalists that worked for "the new york times" and espn and finally congress. so what we document in our book is this period over a period of almost two decades where the league set up a research arm that essentially denied that this was a problem, even as many of the most prominent players were suffering from seriously debilitating injuries. so under pressure, the league finally in 2009, 2010 began to realize this is a serious problem. >> most acknowledge that the sport itself has grown far more dangerous in recent years. to what can we attribute that? >> we document this very explicitly in our book. but every fan knows that the players are simply bigger and faster and stronger. there's a physicist at the

university of nebraska who's looked at this and has calculated that the amount of force that's generated at the line of scrimmage has essentially doubled over the last several decades. and so the amount of force that's being generated not only at the line of scrimmage but all over the field is just tremendous. he calculates that it's like getting hit in the head with a ten-pound cannonball traveling at 30 miles an hour when you're absorbing one of these hits. that, as these neuroscientists have shown, can really have catastrophic effects. >> the nfl has only once acknowledged the link between football and brain damage. they didn't even admit culpability in a massive lawsuit. in 2005, the league issued a report and concluded, professional football players do not sustain frequent repetitive blows to the brain on a regular basis. some have said getting the nfl to change its ways will be as colossal of an undertaking as

the decades spent trying to get big tobacco to acknowledge its health hazards. fair comparison? >> i think in many respects that it is. the nfl is a huge industry. it's a $10 billion industry that's funded in large part by television networks like espn, which pays the nfl $2 billion a year to broadcast monday night football. and so this is an existential threat that gets to the heart of the sport. i think one of the things that the nfl is trying to deal with is how can you persuade people that nfl football is safe when it's an inherently violent game? and that's frankly one of the reasons why we watch it. these are incredible athletes who are both bellette ic and unbelievably power. how do you convince parents that are contending with this issue

that this is a safe sport and at the same time make it as marketable as it is now? >> can you make football a safe sport without turning it into a sport that's largely unrecognizable to fans who enjoy it today? >> i think some of the certain neuroscientists would argue, no. we write about this extensively in the book. one of the problems and what's creating this disease is the incessant pounding that occurs on every play. it's the accumulation of these hits. and so they would argue, some of them would argue, no, you can't. my own personal view is that, no, you can't take the head out of the game without taking football out of football. and so i think our goal is to provide as much information as possible so that people can make very personal decisions about what they want for their kids and for themselves. i think at the nfl level, these

are grown men who are getting paid handsomely to absorb this punishment. and i don't think my brother and i have any real interest in trying to change the sport. but the nfl didn't do anybody any favors by just trying to bury this information for years and years. >> steve, thank you so much, steve. appreciate your time. >> thank you. up next, we'll go back live to the hill for the latest on the government shutdown. is there hope of a deal this weekend? and, a donor dilemma. the son of the late marvin gay will join me to talk about his fight for a new kidney. we'll also talk about the crisis affecting millions of minorities just like us. copd makes it hard to breathe... but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can help make this a great block party. ♪ [ male announcer ] advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory

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the motion is not agreed to. >> no deal. the senate rejecting a plan to extend the debt ceiling. majority leader harry reid says they've still got a long way to go.

good saturday, everyone. i'm craig melvin. we are now just five days from defaulting on the nation's debt on this, the 12th day of the government shutdown. still, no signs of a deal on another rare weekend session for congress. >> and this republican government shutdown. >> the request cannot be entertained. >> this republican government shutdown that is hurting so many american people. >> that request cannot be entertained. >> open the government without further delay. >> as the chair previously advised, that request cannot be entertained. >> also ahead this afternoon, a public plea. the son of r&b legend marvin gay needs a kidney transplant desperately. how his own illness is exposing a crisis for all minorities. he'll join me live. everyone's being real cautious about how they're dealing with this matter. >> plus, the off-the-field fight for the tampa bay buccaneers. what it means for this weekend's

home game. and celebrating columbus. we will take a look at the meaning behind the holiday. first, though, we go straight to capitol hill where earlier today, the senate rejected a plan to raise the debt ceiling through next year. luke russert has been standing by on the hill. we just got word a few moments ago that democratic senators are going to be meeting with president obama at some point here in the next few hours. what can we expect from that meeting? >> well, they're going to be formulating a strategy, craig. what they said right before -- the press conference before i came here, dick durbin, chuck schumer both said they're optimistic to get some sort of deal with mitch mcconnell and found him to be genuine in his overtures of negotiation. this all stems from a house republican conference meeting this morning at 9:00 a.m. of which john boehner and eric cantor informed their conference the white house has rejected their six-week debt limit extension deal. it's now the focus goes on to senate republicans.

the question now becomes, what kind of deal can mitch mcconnell and harry reid figure out to fund the government as well as extend the nation's credit limit? earlier today, there was a proposal by susan collins of maine that would have funded the government through march 31st and put the debt limit till january 31st. democrats said, no thank you, we want it to be longer. now they have to figure out how to get a long-term extension for government funding and a longer-term extension of the debt limit. and what do republicans get in return for that. mitch mcconnell is going to want something. i suspect that's what the conversation is going to be at the white house between these senators and the president, what type of fig leaves can we offer mcconnell to provide him some cover to get a vote. now, the clock is ticking. the deadline is thursday. but the way the senate works with their parliamentary procedure, it's possible for one senator to delay legislation like this for a considerable amount of time. that's why they want to get something on the floor as quickly as possible to avoid the

cruz wing of senate republicans from holding anything up. because if it gets to thursday and they don't have a deal, watch for the markets to absolutely tank. there's bipartisan agreement on that front. >> those markets which heretofore have been largely unaffected by the nonsense in d.c. democratic senators spoke out just moments ago about their vote earlier. this is what senator chuck schumer had to say. >> the motion to proceed so that we could pay our bills failed because it didn't get the 60 votes, it didn't get the bipartisan support that we had hoped. this is playing with fire. we don't know when the markets will react to this. >> so we've heard from some republican house members. in fact, i had one on last hour who have intimated that crashing through the so-called debt ceiling may not bring down liquid debt. >> reporter: the debt limit deniers.

there's a group of them, certainly. >> what about senate republicans? are they saying the same thing or no? >> reporter: there are some that have said that. rand paul has said you could go through the debt limit and not have particularly adverse consequences. but the thing is if you talk to any economist who comes from a reputable institution, they will tell you this is an absolutely catastrophe to not only the u.s. economy but the world economy. the united states economy is what the world economy is essentially based on. this is considered the safest place to invest. if we don't pay our debts, then we become the laughingstock. there's bipartisan agreement on both fronts on that. but the challenge becomes, when this deal presumably gets out of the senate, john boehner has to take that to the house. and you'll have a lot of house republicans that say, we don't want an extension of the debt limit, we can't add more to that $17 trillion number. and the question becomes, does he go back on a temporary extension of the debt limit or

go forward with the bipartisan bill? but the debt limit deniers crowd, if the markets go down and you see these reports coming out from goldman sachs which is very much on the right side of things in terms of political ideology, that the gdp of the united states could lose four percentage points if you had a default, that resonates with a lot of folks on capitol hill who use their brain frequently. >> luke russert, plainspoken as always, sir. thank you for your time on a saturday afternoon. i want to bring in eamon javers. he covers the market and politics for cnbc. simply, what happens if there is not a deal to raise the debt ceiling by october 17th? >> reporter: we get much closer, craig, to panic in the financial markets. we saw last week on thursday markets rally about 300 points just on rumors that a deal might be in the offing. you could see the reverse of that as we get closer and closer to thursday without any deal or signs that a dealmaking over the

weekend might be falling apart. monday could be very hairy in the markets if this dealmaking over the weekend doesn't seem to bear any fruit. it's difficult to predict when exactly wall street will start to totally panic. but you can guarantee they will at some point as we get closer. >> let's talk about the debt deniers as luke dubbed them. a column in "the daily caller" makes the case that not raising the ceiling doesn't niecely mean that america defaults. quote, if republicans refuse to raise the debt limit when the government has reached its borrowing limit, congress will simply be forced to live within its means by rerouting current spending to previously accrued debt. are fears of a default unfounded at all? >> reporter: no, fears of a default are not unfounded. that is true. but there's a couple of layers of nuance and complexity to that. a lot of times you hear the question of default on the debt or default on obligations. those two terms get smooshed together in this.

what would happen is the united states would not be able to borrow any more money. because we borrow almost half of what we spend as a nation, that would mean that all of a sudden within a couple of days, the united states would be spending about half as much as it had been spending before. we would as a country be able to spend based on incoming tax receipts but we couldn't borrow any more. that would mean huge cuts in u.s. government spending. how big? goldman sachs has estimated that it would be between $75 billion and $175 billion every month out of the u.s. economy. to give you a sense of the scale of that, the fed has been pumping in $85 billion a month into the economy just to keep things going. the markets over the summer freaked out about the idea that they would slow that $85 billion down by just a little bit, taking $75 billion to $175 billion a month out of the economy would be a gut kick to the united states economy. >> 15, 20 seconds here, if i'm john q. sixpack, how does this

affect me? >> interest rates. you have to worry about that, including you're mortgage. that's going to be the scary thing. plus their retirement funds, i.r.a.s. you could see real impacts across main street and the country. >> cnbc's eamon javers, appreciate it. i want to bring in senator bernie sanders now. independent from vermont, also a member of the budget committee. senator, good to see you on a saturday afternoon. thank you so much for stopping by. we mentioned a moment ago, senate democratic leaders heading to the white house at this hour. what can we expect to come from this meeting? >> well, i think what we can expect to come from this meeting is unity in demanding that the extremists in the republican caucus in the house do what the american people want. and the issue is pretty clear. it is not a major ask to allow

the united states government to continue functioning. it is not a major ask that the united states government pays its bills so that for the first time in the history of this country we default, create an international financial crisis and what your commentators a moment ago were saying is absolutely true. interest rates will spike for mortgages, for car loans, et cetera. businesses will go under. unemployment will go up. it will be in all likelihood a disaster for this country. what i happen to believe is that at the end of the day, the republican party remains very dependent on wall street and big money interests. and i think those guys are going to go to john boehner and say, john, listen, you've got to deal with these crazies. you have to have a vote in which all members of the house can vote. and if he does that at the request of the big money guys, i think we're going to keep the government open and i think we're going to pay our debts.

>> senator, you've been in this game a long time, sir. you've been around washington, d.c. for a long time. what's happening there? for the average person who's been watching this play out over the past 12 days, who first of all probably thought, there's no way the government's going to shut down, there's no way we're going to default on the debt. and here we are 12th day of the shutdown, five days away from a potential default. and a lot of folks are watching this play out and scratching their heads, really not being able to understand precisely how it's come to this. >> okay. let me tell you what i think. many people may not be fully appreciative of it. what has happened in the last several years is the republican party has undergone a major transformation. it used to be a center right party. today, it is a right wing -- for many of the members, they are

right wing extremists. and what everybody has got to understand, it's not just that they hate obama care and want to repeal health insurance for 20 million americans. these guys want to abolish the concept of the minimum wage. they want to end social security, if not today, then tomorrow. they want to end medicare as we know it. they want to eviscerate the environmental protection agency, the department of energy. what these guys really want -- and read what the koch brothers say. read what some of these people are saying. they want to transform this country into an oligarchic -- >> is that fair to say? >> what is fair to say is that the people who fund the republican party like the koch brothers and other right wing extremist organizations who have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into elections and into setting up organizations supporting the tea party, that

is exactly what they want to do. i'm not saying that every republican wants that. >> okay. senator bernie sanders, independent from vermont, member of the budget committee, senator, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> i'll let you get back to work. up next, politics and money. what ki-- does limiting campaig donations violate your rights? what's at stake before the high court right now. also, meeting malala, a girl who survived an assassination attempt visits the white house. what she told president obama about his war on terror. first, though, how the shutdown is sending people who would normally be working scrambling for their most basic needs. >> a lot of them live paycheck to paycheck. minimum wage workers, folks who count on the seasonal income from those areas. once that's cut off, the need is almost immediate. >> that's why the st. mary's food bank near the grand canyon

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at this moment, president obama is meeting with senate democrats to talk about the latest negotiations on the debt ceiling and the government shutdown. we will go live to 1600 pennsylvania avenue in just a few moments. other top headlines on this saturday, republican senator ted cruz leads the pack in one of the first major presidential straw polls. among the top five vote-getters,

ben carson, rick santorum, rand paul and marco rubio. gabby giffords is in new york to attend her first gun show since being nearly shot to death three years ago. giffords agreed to attend the fair in saratoga springs after organizers agreed to a code of conduct that requires background checks for gun buyers there. the supreme court's fall session is now under way. money, political money, was on the docket as the court is poised to further change campaign financing rules. tom goalstein is a veteran court watcher, also co-founder of scotus blogs. courts could expand on that 2010 decision that rejected limits on corporate campaign spending. how will the case that they are hearing now -- how could it potentially further affect

contributions? >> this is another supreme court case that tests the proposition that the problem with our broken political system is that there just isn't enough money in it. the citizens united case dealt with corporate and union spending, essentially buying advertisements in elections and lifted restrictions on that. this is a case about campaign contributions, that is, giving money to the candidate. the supreme court's conservative majority has expressed doubts about whether the government really does have a free hand to limit those to, say, $2,600 per election cycle. the specific test here is that in federal law, there are a set of aggregate limits. how much you can give to all the candidates in the federal election and how much you can give to the party committees. for example, the rnc. and this would be if the challenger prevails another step in the direction of deregulation of the campaign finance system. the idea that there's just a first amendment free speech right to spend as you will in the process. >> who's bringing this case? >> this is an alabama

businessman named mr. mccutcheon. he really wants to give to a lot of republican candidates around the country. he says, if i can give to one, what's the problem with me giving to all of them? he wants to give a lot of money to the rnc. the other side says, if you don't have rules here, 500 people around the country could end up financing the entire election. that would be simpler but might be a little bit dangerous for our politics. >> the court is also set to hear some cases -- this particular session on race-based affirmative action and separation of church and state issues. >> you've named the case that says, we're not going to have affirmative action in college admissions anymore or whether that is itself a form of discrimination because you could have preferences, say, for athletes or alumni children but simply not on the basis of race or gender. and then the religion case involves legislative prayer.

it's from -- called the town of greece. the question is, how much can chaplains be involved in the process of starting government meetings? the supreme court has said you can have some forms of prayer to make it more solemn. but there is a line that eventually gets crossed that makes it too denominational. makes it too much about one religion that the government's endorsing. the supreme court is going to tell us a little bit more about where that line is. >> tom, thank you. >> thank you. the pakistani teenager who survived that assassination attempt by the taliban visited the white house friday. 16-year-old malala yousufzai had a private meeting with the first family in the oval office. during that meeting, she raised her concerns about the administration's use of drones saying they are fueling terrorism. n me...' ♪ ♪ 'take me home...' ♪ 'i'll be gone...'

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overeating, football, not working. and we pause for some odd ones. arbor and groundhog day strike me as especially unnecessary. they are essential but not really worthy of official acknowledgment. however, the holiday that many stop to celebrate monday, columbus day, is the most ridiculous. first of all, you really shouldn't get credit for discovering something if when you arrive, lots of people are already there and have been there for a really long time. and you certainly shouldn't get a holiday if you're not the undisputed discoverer. many others seem to have as much of a claim as christopher. and secondly, lest we forget what christopher columbus actually did once he found america, he helped annihilate countless native americans. and he ordered his men to rape

native women. that's not the kind of guy who should get a holiday named after him. hawaii, alaska and south dakota, they all agree with me, in fact. those states do not recognize columbus day. and there's a movement afoot in california to do the same. the golden state wants to repeal and replace it with, get this, native american day. and america should follow suit. here's a thought. let's scrap columbus day altogether. let's make the second monday in october the day that we remember the conquered and slaughtered. not the one who found them, killed them and started stealing their land.

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we're following developing news at the white house right

now. again, president obama is meeting with senate democratic leaders as we speak. nbc's kristen welker is standing by for us. kristen, first of all, what is the significance of what seems to be a pretty last-minute meeting? >> reporter: i think the purpose of this meeting is for senate democratic leaders to update president obama on all of the fast-moving developments throughout the day. as you'll recall, the day started with house speaker john boehner announcing that president obama had rejected his plan to reopen the government and extend the debt limit. so then the attention shifted focus to the senate. moderate republican susan collins had a plan to reopen the government. that was rejected. white house officials, democratic officials on the hill saying the spending levels weren't right. they were too low. and also didn't reopen the government and extend the debt limit for a long enough period of time. so now senate majority leader, harry reid and minority leader mitch mcconnell, are working

together to try to get a deal to reopen the government. so i anticipate that harry reid will be talking to president obama about the parameters of any potential deal that could come together. what this meeting is not, craig, is an indication that a deal is imminent or going to come within the next few hours. in fact, i've been talking to folks here at the white house and on the hill who say that their best hope for a deal is really over the next 48 hours. but, of course, the clock is ticking because on october 17th, the nation will default on its loans if lawmakers don't figure out a way to increase the debt limit. and if that happens, according to economists, that could be economically devastating for the country. so the pressure is really on and particularly on republicans because, according to our latest polls, as we've been reporting for the past several days, a majority of americans disagree with how they are handling this situation and put the blame on them for this situation. craig? >> kristen welker from the white house for us on this saturday afternoon, thank you.

switching gears now. this week, actor tom hanks made news when he revealed he had type 2 diabetes. but minority communities and in particular african-americans have the highest likelihood of getting the disease and its negative health effects. for instance, kidney complications. 34% on the national waiting list for kidney transplants are black. musician marvin gay iii recently revealed that he has suffering from kidney failure. and he is looking for a suitable donor. he joins me live now. marvin, good to see you. first of all, a lot of folks wondering how you're doing. >> well, i'm doing fine, thank you. today happens to be a good day. >> you've been receiving dialysis for three years now. why share your condition publicly now? >> well, it's just time because

what happens is that when you're on dialysis for a period of time, dialysis is meant to sustain your life. but it's not a cure-all. and what happens is that there's a lot of things that i'm interested in doing and a lot of people that i can help by putting out the message that this situation can be beat. and what happens is that when you have diabetes and if you have high blood pressure, you could end up having kidney failure, which is my case. and i just want to put out a message for a lot of people so that they don't end up like i am. and what happens is, it stems from proper diet and the knowledge of what diabetes actually is and knowing that with the proper exercise and catching it early enough, you don't have to have these problems. you can actually beat diabetes.

>> i want to show some numbers to our audience right now when it comes to kidney transplants specifically. african-americans make up 34% of folks on the waiting list, like i just said. and also 25% of transplants performed, but only 14% of all organ donors look like me and you. why are so many african-americans on the waiting list for kidney transplants? and why aren't there more african-american donors? >> well, what happens is, unfortunately within the african-american and hispanic communities, obesity and high blood pressure and diabetes are prevalent of epidemic proportions. when you have -- when you need a transplant, you have to be -- first of all, the donor has to be in full health without any of the conditions that i just described. and within the african-american community and the hispanic

communities, that's of epidemic proportions. so it's very hard for you to get a transplant from a relative or someone of the same nationality. >> personally how is the search for you going, the search for a suitable donor? >> it's been very hard because i have a rare blood type, i have "b" positive. and like i said, within my community and within my family, it's just, i haven't found a suitable match yet. it's just become time for me to put the word out, not only for myself but for others. i realize that i can help a lot of people to not end up in the position that i'm in. >> marvin gay iii, thank you so much for your time. good luck to you, sir. and do appreciate you trying to use what has to be just a tremendous personal struggle, using that to try and raise some awareness. thank you. >> yes. i'd also like to say, i'm

donating some of the proceeds from my album coming out towards the research for this cause. >> when's the album out? >> it will be out soon. sometime in 2014. >> we'll keep a lookout for it. thank you, sir. >> thank you very much. the tampa bay buccaneers are tighting an outbreak of mrsa now. according to reports, it's the third case of the infection on the team since the season started. doctors say the first two players to get the illness have strains that are not related to each other. mrsa lives on a variety of surfaces and can infect people through open cuts which of course is quite common to football players. n it comes to doing what you love, more is better. that's why we designed the all-new nissan versa note, with more technology, to get you into, and out of, tight spots. and more space so that you always have your favorite stuff. and, just for good measure, an incredibly efficient 40 mpg highway. so that when you're doing more, you're spending less. the all-new nissan versa note. your door to more.

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[ sighs ] [ chuckles ] [ announcer ] always rich, never bitter. gevalia. which comes out on top? we brought real people to the texas desert to find out. it's just nice. very crisp. cool and fresh. that's what i was thinking! fresh. that's exactly what i was thinking. yeah. fresh. fresh. like i could definitely wrap myself in it. odors are no match for the febreze car vent clip. another way febreze helps you breathe happy. i want to update you really quickly. i've gotten a number of tweets from you. and there have been some folks who have called as well regarding ebt cards and food stamp use right now. many of our affiliate stations all over the country have gotten lots of calls from people who

say they're having trouble using their ebt cards and food stamps at various grocery stores. we've looked into the problem and found out that there's some sort of problem with connectivity in texas. pennsylvania governor tom corbett says the problem stems from a power outage in texas. this is not, i repeat, not in any way, shape or form connected to the government shutdown. we understand that officials are working to get that system back up and running. so there's the update on that. you can stop tweeting me that right now as well. so the house has come and gone today. in recess till monday. the senate also met and recessed until monday. what did they accomplish? the government is still shut down. there's no deal on the debt ceiling. i want to go ahead and bring in the brain trust right now. esther armah, jackie kucinich

and gary johnson. good to see all of you on a saturday afternoon. jackie, at the opening of friday's senate session, chaplain black employing people to break the stalemate. >> give them a hatred of all hypocrisy, deceit and shame as they seek to replace them with gentleness, patience and truth. >> patience and truth. jackie kucinich, you were there inside the capitol. what can you tell us? any signs that this thing is going to be ending at some point in the foreseeable future? >> perhaps i guess is the best way i could answer that. you have reid and mcconnell finally meeting. and that is a good sign.

however, what the details of any kind of plan they would work out are still very much in flux. we don't really have one yet. there was some talk about senator susan collins' plan, a republican from maine. but democrats didn't like it because it didn't do enough for them. republicans didn't like it because it did too much. really we're at a point where house republicans aren't liking anything the senate is putting forward and vice versa. >> gary, the president through his press secretary yesterday is hanging tough. take a listen. >> the president cannot as he said so many times pay ransom in exchange for congress fulfilling its fundamental responsibility, to ensure the united states doesn't default and pays its bills. >> gary, where's the room for compromise here? >> well, one of the things that's going unsaid is that -- i'm getting feedback in my microphone so it's hard to speak. but obama has the ability to

prioritize payments. there's still revenue coming in to the government. so he could be reassuring the american public that, look, we're going to pay interest on treasuries. we're going to keep essential services open -- >> gary -- >> social security checks will be mailed out. >> gary, two things. first of all, a lot of folks are questioning the constitution constitutionality of that assertion. and the larger question is, shouldn't the president have to prioritize? should congress not essentially say, you know what, we're going to pay the bills we racked up? >> i think in this case, congress is saying, look, if we don't take some hard medicine here, we're going to kill the patient. and i'm in the camp that really believes that we are going to suffer a monetary collapse as a result of this continued spending beyond our means.

so they're utilizing the only tool that they have. i just think that president obama could be a lot more reassuring to the american public that essential things will be paid for. and something that also is going unsaid is, look, with the government shutdown currently -- that's currently in place, we're still not meeting expenses. revenues and expenses still don't meet. republicans have to come to the table and say, look, military spending needs to be cut. democrats need to come to the table and say, entitlements need to be adjusted. something that really is not happening and could be happening and i hope it does. >> esther, let's talk about the new poll that came out. why are you shaking your head? >> it's so hard -- you're nodding in disgust. >> because it's really hard to listen to this consistent politicking and positioning around power, the president, notions of compromise between the republicans and democrats. the reason it's hard to do that

is i live in brooklyn in new york. i walk past the food bank where there are more and more and more people because the price being paid is on the streets of this country. and there's far too little said about who directly pays the price for what really is the politics of incompetence. and the kind of incompetence that should be rewarded by being pulled out of office, especially with those polls that show record unpopularity for the republicans. the thing that is the challenge, of course, is with the midterms coming up. the folks that show up for the midterms are not necessarily the folks who are in the polls. and how will the people make washington pay for this kind of behavior that is completely unacceptable? >> we know the kind of voters that show up for midterm elections in this country. the types of voters who show up every two years versus every four years are typically the most rabid of voters. these are folks who follow politics far more closely than your presidential election

voters. >> and so the point is that i believe it's important for democracy to have a rigorous opposition that best serves democracy. >> if it's a legitimate opposition. >> the nature of the politics here -- every single day this week, when you turned on to cable news, you're just waiting for the headline that says the shutdown is over. and every day, it's a new meeting with a new deadline -- >> we've got the banner ready. >> the countdown, the clock. it's the consistent headline that essentially nothing happened. it was another meeting, deadlock. nothing happened. maybe, possibly. and the people continue to pay the price. >> jackie kucinich, i want to talk to you about this poll because esther brought it up and naturally we're talking about the poll a lot because it's our poll, nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. it found that the majority of people in this country blame the gop for this. and when you ask the question, do you think we should fire the

bums down in washington and even more of an overwhelming majority say, get the whole lot of them out of there, are lawmakers that you're talking to, are lawmakers that you're interacting with there on the hill, are they aware at just how wildly unpopular they are? do they know how much people are disgusted with them? and if they do, what's their response? >> i think when you get to certain parts of the republican party, they are extremely worried about what this is doing to the brand and what their prospects are going down the road. but the fact of the matter is, when you get down to the districts nationally, republicans are very unpopular. but when you get to their districts, that might not be the case, depending on where in the country you're talking about. if you're talking about a moderate republican, yes, they're looking at these polls and they are groaning and saying, we need to do something. but if you're in a bright ruby red district, your constituents are telling you you're doing the right thing and sticking it to the president and the democrats.

as far as is this going to shake them into doing anything? not some of them. some of them just don't think it applies to them and don't really take much stock in it. >> let's take a quick break, pause for a few moments. when we come back, we've naturally been talking about the shutdown and the debt ceiling a great deal this week. when we come back, though, i'd like to take a moment to take a look at the stories that were perhaps underplayed, overlooked. we'll be right back. jooirvegs ready to run your lines? okay, who helps you focus on your recovery? yo, yo, yo. aflac. wow. [ under his breath ] that was horrible. pays you cash when you're sick or hurt? [ japanese accent ] aflac. love it. [ under his breath ] hate it. helps you focus on getting back to normal?

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the brain trust is back. ester, jackie, gary. we have spent the afternoon, we've spent the day and last night and day before that and

day before that talking about the government shutdown and debt deadline and like to pause here and take a moment, take a few moments, actually torque talk about some stories that may have gotten overlooked and underplayed this week. gary, let me start with you. since you're new to the brain trust, what is gotten overlooked? what's underplayed this week? lost in the shuffle, sort to speak. >> the real issues that exist. that we have to reduce our spending and that means from a republican standpoint that republicans have to admit that military spending has to bed si. does that mean a reduction in the readiness? i don't think so. on the democrats' side, look, the willingness to adjust enit toolments and there won't be any good services available to any of us. there is going to be an accompanying inflation that goes with as much money as we're

printing right now. and that's really the untold story. we are at a crossroads in this country. if we don't address it, we suffer a monetary collapse and please don't -- >> gary, i don't think a lot of people take issue with addressing that. i think most folks take address with the method of addressing that now. >> yeah. well, i have criticism for both sides. president obama could be reassuring the american public that, look, i'm going to take care of the delivery of a central goods and services to american people. we are not going to default on our debt. as the chief administrator, i'm going to make it happen. i speak as a former governor of new mexico for eight years. you can make this happen. >> gary, you're a smart guy. gary? >> kick out the lawyers. gate new set of lawyers. >> but, gary, we both know that

it's the responsibility of congress to pay the bills. that's how the three-branch system works. you have the executive, jewi judiciary and legislative branch. >> yeah, well, no disagreement. but i would just argue that administratively, the chief executive can exert some power here that can alleviate all this much to do in many ways about nothing. >> jackie, what else got overlooked and underplayed? >> craig, i'm going to apologize to you right off the bat. the shutdown is my wheelhouse and take you off the shutdown but only kind of. the white house started meeting with business leaders and trade groups who are starting to get upset with the fact that the debt ceiling hasn't been raised and one of the most interesting pieces in "the washington post" story today is the chamber of commerce is looking at challenging some of these tea

party members that they helped put in office and looking at supporting moderates because of the debt ceiling issue. so we'll see but depending on how far this goes, we could be looking at some real electoral movement because of this. >> ester -- >> i'm sorry for not getting too far off the shutdown. >> you just taught me something new. overlooked and underplayed. i didn't know that. what else did i not know? >> definitely overlooked, so actually on friday adrian patterson who plays for the vikings, his son was killed and the young man charged with his killing has a history of domestic violence. october is awareness month. this is the month supposed to be about raising awareness around the degree to which intimate partner violence, women are killed, beaten, assaulted and there is a connection between that and the economy. violence has an economy.

and the legacy of the 2008 collapse, the legacy of sequestration is shelters closing. not to say ceos and unfortunately beat women, too. it's sadly an equal opportunity crime. but the degree to which it's being underlooked, underplayed and not discussed is really crucial and of course we know marisa alexander is serving 20 years for defending herself against an abusive husband and there's a major campaign on right now called 31 for marisa about engaging men in the domestic violence movement because part of the issue is men absent from that space. >> always a pleasure. ester, jackie. former new mexico governor gary johnson, one-time presidential nominee, as well. thank you so much, sir, for joining the brain trust.

we'd love to have you back. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> you might live to regret that. thank you. >> he's absolutely right. i'll be back tomorrow starting at 3:00 eastern. my guests of tennessee republican congresswoman blackburn and former president carter's take on the shutdown. karen finney disrupting right after this. and it feels like your life revolves around your symptoms, ask your gastroenterologist about humira adalimumab. humira has been proven to work for adults who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief, and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb.

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